**'Ingeniously, Coogler has transformed “Rocky”—the modern cinematic myth that, perhaps more than any other, endures as a modern capitalist Horatio Alger story of personal determination and sheer will—into a vision of community and opportunity, connections and social capital, family and money.'
The first quote(*) is from the New York Times review of the film. Read the rest here. The second quote(**) is from a review in The New Yorker. Read the rest here. The film got mostly positive reviews, and as yesterday's blog stated, made almost $174 million in its run—not bad for a boxing movie. This is clearly a commercial film, capitalizing on a popular series and with the weight of a major studios behind it—MGM, New Line, and Warner Brothers—it was designed to be a popular film in ways Moonlight wasn't (Creed made over $100 million more than Moonlight which never got the wide release Creed did). At the same time, Creed was, like Moonlight, directed by newcomer, Ryan Coogler, who had done only one movie before this and was 28 years old when he made Creed, and like Moonlight, it starred a young actor (Michael B. Jordan who had only recently come to movies from TV—The Wire, Friday Night Lights, Parenthood), and like Moonlight, had a predominantly African-American cast. The last Rocky film, Rocky Balboa, was released back in 2006, so it wasn't as if audiences were clamoring for a new one. So while clearly a commercial venture, Creed was not a sure success—more so than Moonlight, but the question was still would an audience come out for a Rocky movie starring a young black man and in which Rocky himself was a supporting character?
1. You haven't finished the film (please don't find out the ending, if you haven't seen it). So—separate—from your reaction to Moonlight: don't compare them yet—what is your reaction to it? Explain your response. And what moment, scene, image, stayed with you—and why?
2. Would you recommend this film to your friends? Why or why not? And what would you say this movie is about to them if you wanted them to see it—or what would you say is the problem is what the movie is about if you couldn't recommend it?
3. Can you make a case for why this film was such a success? Is it simply because it is a Rocky movie? That it co-starred Sylvester Stallone? That it has a straight-forward plot (much like Jaws, another hugely successful genre film)? The audience could not have all been boxing movie, Sylvester Stallone, Rocky fans; what else in this movie could have appealed to those viewers?
4. Creed and Moonlight: Commercial vs. Art; genre film vs. personal story; straight vs. gay; etc. They would appear to be polar opposites. Is there any crossover here though? Is there a place where these films meet—where they share certain theme(s) or conflicts? If so—how so? If you think not, why not?
We'll talk about both films tomorrow; then second half of class we'll begin Middle of Nowhere, the second film by Ava DuVernay for which she won the Best Director Prize at the 2012 Sundance Film Festival. She went on to direct Selma, nominated for Best Picture at the 2014 Academy Awards, and the documentary 13th, nominated for Best Documentary at the 2016 Academy Awards. This is the trailer for Middle of Nowhere.
1. In the beginning I did not really like Creed (the first section we watched on the first day) but the section we watched today I actually found myself very engaged in. The relationship between Rocky and Adonis was actually very touching and sweet. The scene that really stayed with me was when Adonis is in the jail and crying when he is talking to Rocky. This stayed with me because normally throughout the movie Adonis has responded to most emotions with violence and anger, but to see this masculine character break down was a really key scene in the movie. As he cries he is still responding to Rocky with anger, and is punching the air afterwards, which is so telling of the pressure for men to not show weakness and to react with anger.
ReplyDelete2. I would recommend this to a friend, because it entertaining, intense, and also touching.
3. I think that the movie perfectly adds Rocky nostalgia, while still being its own movie, that could be watched easily without watching Rocky. I think that it appeals because well Micheal B. Jordan... Also its just genuinely good sports movie.
4. I thought that the one shot boxing scene made me think a little bit of some of the scenes in moonlight when the camera circled around the characters. Also like I said before the inclusion of Micheal B. Jordan crying made me think of moonlight which also addresses the topic of men crying.
ReplyDelete1. So far this movie is okay, but I don’t like it any more than I would an average movie. It’s pretty good, I like the fighting and the build up, but I have seen this type of movie so many times that it’s kind of boring. This is a classic movie about the underdog training to rise above with his mentor, so hopefully something wild happens that I am not expecting. The image that has stayed with me was when all that blood and fluid came out of Creed/Johnson’s mouth when he was hit, as I thought that was gross but awesome. The weird motorcycle scene also stuck with me because I thought it was over dramatic and kind of dumb (and therefore hilarious).
2. I wouldn’t go recommending this movie, but if someone asked me if they should see it, I would probably say, “sure go see it’s pretty good”, because it’s not a bad movie, it’s just not that great. I get really irritated with storylines like this and I need for something awesome to push it over the edge to make me want to recommend it. I need something interesting to be going on to make this movie better than all the other sports movies of an underdog and his mentor rising above expectations.
3. I think most of this movie’s success was that it was a classic boxing sports movie with Stallone. This is an easy movie to see with anyone, as it’s not too graphic, not too mild, fun, intense, a smidge sad, and doesn’t make you think very much. It’s a movie people just go to see to go see a fun movie.
4. There is some hidden crossover in these two movies. They both handle ideas of young men trying to find their place in the world, even though their situations are opposite. They also have to do with relationships and trusting others/being hurt by others. I think the way Moonlight brings up these kinds of topics is much more interesting, thoughtful, and prettier way, while Creed kind of shoves those ideas in your face.
1.So far this movie has not had quite the impact on my that many other films we've watched so far has, but that does not necessarily mean I don't enjoy it. I think the movie is definitely very entertaining and has been an enjoyable watch so far. I have not seen the rocky movies but I can gather how this is somewhat a sequel type of movie as it is the next generation and includes Rocky himself. One scene that has stayed with me was when Adonis told Mary Anne that he was moving and and going to pursue a career in boxing. This scene was notable because it touched on the impact of Adonis' father and his legacy and also introduces the passion and drive Adonis has for the new path in his life.
ReplyDelete2. I think I would recommend this movie to my friends. I would say it is set after the rocky movies and is about boxing, but is much more interesting than just straight boxing.
3. I think that this movie being connected to the Rocky films definitely drew some major attention from Rocky fans. Besides that, I think it was a success because I think it can please many different audiences. Along with boxing and the sports side it has aspects of overcoming hardships, romance, and more. Also I think Michael B. Jordan could've also been a draw for many as he is a popular (and very attractive) actor.
I think while these two movies are very different there are definitely some crossovers. 4.One crossover could be both of these characters grow up without a father and then in other aspects of their life find a sort of father figure (Rocky and Juan.) They also both deal with societal expectations of what they should be doing with their lives and both overcome obstacles.
1. I have seen Creed multiple times, and I really like it. Amongst the movies we've watched so far, Creed certainly falls closer to Fury Road than Moonlight, although I think it is a good mix of themes and storytelling from both. For me, Creed tells the most emotional stories (note that I say 'stories,' not 'story,' because it's hard to argue against Moonlight). Whether it be with Rocky's cancer, Bianca's hearing, Adonis' rejection, or numerous other stories, Creed has a plethora of good emotional beats that separate it from the standard boxing movie. Not to mention the slightly cheesy moment during the final fight when Adonis confesses that all he wants is to show that he's not a mistake, that part, as cheesy as it might be, really resonates with me.
ReplyDelete2. Yes, I would recommend this to my friends. While this may not be as high on the list as the other movies we've watched so far, it still remains a must see for how easy it is to get into the simple story, how each character isn't 2D, and the artistic moments that pop up throughout the film. This movie, in general, is about not giving up on your dreams. Adonis is trying to make his own mark on the world, and not be defined by someone else. He never gives up, whether it be with Bianca, Rocky, or fighting in general, he hates loosing.
3. Why was this film a success? I think that's due to a number of things; it's never boring, has easy to understand characters, combines great emotional moments mixed with action ones, and has some artistic value to it. This film's soundtrack is pretty awesome. It mixes the old classic theme of Rocky, and some newer modern songs perfectly, which add to its quick editing to make a fast easy to watch movie. There's also great characters, who actually act like real people, and don't just serve the plot like most commercial movies. Bianca has her own career to keep track of, along with dealing with her hearing loss. Rocky feels alone, until Adonis comes, and has to deal with cancer (which took his wife). And Adonis tries to make it by himself, without his father's legacy, while also dealing with the pressure that comes from being an illegitimate child to the greatest boxer of all time.
4. Yes, there are certainly parts of Creed and Moonlight that overlap. The main part cinematically to me is some of the cinematography. Creed has numerous 'long shots': whether it be that amazing 4 minute shot of that fight, or the smaller ones in the more emotional conversations (like when Bianca and Adonis are playing around with the music). In this way Creed is similar to Moonlight, as Moonlight also has its own long shots (of mostly conversation). Also, there are some thematic similarities. Both characters are Black (duh), but Creed doesn't go as much into how race has impacted Adonis. Both films do however share the theme of finding what you want and pursuing it. Creed mostly has this at the start, when he quits his good job to do boxing full time, but this is an easier choice for him, its mostly in the pursuing part that he finds his struggle. Chiron has difficulties in both areas, in figuring out his feelings and pursuing them. Both characters don't have the best childhoods, they both never knew their fathers, and their mothers either didn't show much love to them or didn't show up at all. They both had a sort of adoptive parent (Adonis' being Creed's wife, and Chiron's being Juan, or Teresa), which provided a lot of influence on them.
1.It's good, but not on the same level as most of the stuff we've watched. I won't compare it to Moonlight, but I will think about it and Jaws together. Jaws was a fabulous thriller that defined the shark movie genre. This is a sequel to a successful series of movies all harkening back to Rocky. While Jaws inspired a whole host of movies that tried to replicate it, Creed is one such movie inspired by Rocky. It is an admittedly new and different look at the "boxing movie" but it doesn't stick out as much as the other things we've watched.
ReplyDelete2. I probably wouldn't recommend it. It's a fun movie, but if I'm giving someone a list of movies they should see, this probably isn't on it. That's not because it's poorly done in some specific way, but just because it doesn't have anything terribly unique about it (to me). It's a good movie, but there are so many good movies, some of them have to be cut. The main thing that makes it hard for me to recommend is that it feels rushed to me. There are about three separate and important plot lines all happening at once, and as a result, they all, especially the romance with Bianca, seem rushed. I enjoy watching it; it's fun and exciting. I wouldn't dissuade someone from watching it, but it just doesn't have enough that I would highly recommend it.
3. It definitely is different from other Rocky movies, but I'm not totally sure. I think the main thing is the focus on his relationship with Rocky. The parallel of the fight in the ring and the fight against cancer is interesting and recognizes a different kind of strength than you expect to see.
4. One of the main connections I see is the aggressively masculine personas both Adonis and Chiron take on. It's interesting to see how even when given wealth and security, Adonis is drawn to this stereotypical masculinity Chiron adopted for protection. The contrast of wealth and family situations make their shared determination to be physically powerful interesting.
1. I personally had mixed emotions about Creed. Although it wasn't the worst movie I have ever seen, it certainly was not the best. I thought it was too fast paced, had a cliche love story, and was very predictable. I did not connect with the characters, though, that could be because I have never experienced a love for sports (which I think this movie does a good job at appealing towards that audience, but not mine). Despite my negative reaction towards it, I did enjoy watching the montage of Adonis training with Rocky because the emotion and image of him working exceptionally hard added more substance to the plot line. That's where I think the movie was lacking- the characters kind of stated things instead of acting them and showing them. For example, when Bianca told Adonis she had gradual hearing loss, it wasn't shown it was simply stated, and she seemed to not really have much emotion towards it. I enjoy movies that leave room for interpretation and build up to a climax in the storyline, and not movies that just say things explicitly.
ReplyDelete2. No, I would not recommend this movie plainly because I just did not like it. I can see how it would appeal to other people, and if the person I was talking to was a sports fan, then I would consider recommending it. But if the person were like me, who does not appreciate sporty films, then I would steer clear of telling them to watch it. For me, it was how fast pace it was, and how there was not any "art" aspect to it but more of a typical, ABC family movie type of movie it was. Not to bash on ABC movies, but I definitely did not see how this movie could be so acclaimed. I thought it was cliche and predictable, as I said before.
3. I have not seen Rocky, but I know it is a big cult-classic movie. Because of this, I think people were drawn to Creed's plot and retake on the older film. However, addressing the other audience members who were not boxing fans, I can see how the love story would be a large appeal factor in the movie. It was actually the only part of the story line that compelled me to continue watching it. Adonis' love interest is struggling with her hearing impairment, and since he is so enthralled with her, clearly her pain is reflected onto him as well. I will give Creed credit for that aspect of its plot: it had a good love story.
4. I think it shares sort of the theme of finding your true self; whether it be being gay or being a boxer, both movies lead to the same "be yourself and you will succeed" sort of message. Although that message is conveyed and developed differently in Moonlight and Creed, I think ultimately they came to the same conclusion. Creed in a more cliche and predictable way, but the same moral either way.
1. At first I really didn't like this movie and I thought it was kind of boring and I didn't really care about Don and his journey but now I like it more but not all that much. I think the turning point for me is when the relationship between Rocky and Don really developed because it was so touching to see them together but the story still seems predictable. I liked the moment where Don couldn't see out his eye but then someone tapped him on his back for the number of fingers the ref was holding up. I liked the sneakyness.
ReplyDelete2. I wouldn't recommend this movie, I didn't think it's all that outstanding or memorable. I think if you already have seen the Rocky movies you might like it. The only reason I might recommend is for someone to see Micheal B Jordan's muscles.
3. I think the original Rocky really helped make the movie. The old watcher gets to see how he's doing in modern times and see him he train someone else. Also it's a cute movie between this nice old man and this cool new fighter so that could possibly be a reason why it's successful.
4. Both men never really had a strong man in their life and Juan was that for Chiron and Rocky was that for Don. I think that they overlap in the fact that both men don't really know themselves and they have to go on this mental journey to figure it out.
1. I really enjoy Creed, this is by far my favorite film we've seen. I really like this movie because I have a strong connection to Rocky, and Adonis, I found my self crying while watching this film. One scene that stayed with me was after Rocky found out he was sick he hid this from Adonis, and when Adonis finds out Rocky tries to push him away. This stayed with me because Rocky is a father like figure to Adonis, and when Adonis finds out he's sick and refuses treatment, it would be like loosing another father for Adonis, so Rocky pushes him away.
ReplyDelete2. I would defiantly recommend this movie to my friends because this movie is one of my favorites. This is a movie about a young man who has been a fighter since a young boy. He lost his father, a famous wrestler, before he was born, and his mother died shortly after. Adonis then starts his career as a wrestler with a Rocky, a famous wrestler. This movie includes Adonis's hard work to become a wrestler, a sweet love story, and a father and son connection. I really enjoyed this movie.
3. I think this movie was such a success because of its straightforward plot. The viewers watching a movie usually just want to see a movie for fun, and this is a movie that doesn't make you think. Creed has a really good plot, that isn't complicated and easy to understand. Even though this isn't a movie that doesn't make you think, I really enjoyed it.
4. There is one scene where Adonis is walking out and getting ready for the fight, this is the one crossover with Moonlight. This is the only crossover I noticed purely because of the filming. Throughout Moonlight the director chose scenes where the camera followed the characters giving the effect you are there. This scene in Creed where Adonis is walking, the camera follows him giving the same effect as Moonlight.
1) I like the movie but not as much as the other films we’ve seen in class so far. I didn’t like the beginning so the whole time the movie has felt off to me, even though I really like the characters. A moment that has stayed with me is the moment when Creed said he wanted to prove he wasn’t an accident. He already had so many reasons to be in the ring and putting up a good fight but that one was so deep, personal, and surprising.
ReplyDelete2) I’d recommend the movie because I like it, and I like the characters and their relationships with each other. There are strong themes of family that are well developed and unusual for many movies.
3) I think the second review is correct in how it says the movie is more “personal and passionate” than just a boxing movie. What appealed to the viewers is probably the story of a boy trying to live up to his father. Everyone has a special relationship with their parents, good or bad, that has defined them. That and Creeds other relationships, for instance with his girlfriend, are all relatable, all flawed, and all make Creed a very interesting character to follow.
4) The cross over is probably in how they boys both grow up without fathers. They are trying to prove whom they are while still trying to find their place in the world. They all have a series of family and father like figures who have helped them grow, but they (Donnie and Chiron) are struggling. They want to have the world accept them and be themselves, but they have to change themselves to find stability.
1. I think it’s almost funny. Not that the content is humorous but it all is so cliché and predictable I think. The legend teaching the unknown son of another legend. Even the soundtrack to me says a lot about the film. It’s hard not to compare to Moonlight but basically I knew all the songs in Creed since they are “mainstream” hip hop/rap songs and don’t forget the classic “sports comeback” tracks and that alone says “commercial movie.”
ReplyDelete2. I wouldn’t recommend it I don’t think. It doesn’t seem like a movie “worth seeing” yet. It’s a pretty typical sports movie and I think there are better options within that genre that are more meaningful or more entertaining based on what you’re looking for. I would say the movie is about your typical underdog who wins against all odds and after everyone has told him not to do what he does, which is pretty much the general plot for any sport movie.
3. I think the fact that it was a continuation of a popular series helped, but that probably isn’t just that. The actors probably helped and I haven’t seen the previous movies but I’m assuming in the last one Rocky had just (unintentionally) killed Apollo and so this new plot line forced a cliffhanger and therefore forced people to come see the next movie. I’m not sure what drew people to the movie other than that because I really don’t see that big of an appeal so far.
4. Creed doesn’t really seem to talk about or address race, at least I haven’t seen it. The cast might’ve been mostly black but all the star boxers and their trainers looked pretty white to me. An intersection between the two is so hard to find to me. I can’t begin to compare these stories because to me Creed isn’t remotely close to the same level as Moonlight. I’d say maybe how the main character turns out exactly like their role-model/father figure. Adonis follows the footsteps of Apollo and Chiron follows Juan. That’s not that great of a similarity but that’s the best I can come up with.
1. I have enjoyed the movie so far, but at times I feel like it does not come close to the original Rocky. One scene that Creed tried to recreate was the scene in the original film where Rocky runs up the steps triumphantly, pumping his fists and going crazy once he reaches the top. It's the scene everyone thinks of when they think of Rocky. Creed tries to remake this scene when Adonis sprints through the streets of Philly, and then is surrounded by motorcyclists. He, like Rocky, begins jumping up and down, and I think this scene sums up the movie: it is good, but does not compare to the original Rocky.
ReplyDelete2. I would recommend this film, as it is a part of the great Rocky series. I'd explain that it is a boxing movie about the son of Apollo Creed who will do everything it takes to build his own legacy. That's what I think this movie is really about: the desire to achieve greatness. I would not say it's up there as one of the greatest sports movies, but I do think it is a motivational film about the strive for greatness.
3. I would have to say no. I think the main reason this was a huge success is because it is part of the Rocky series. Personally, if it was a completely separate movie from the series and did not feature Rocky, I would not have bothered to see it. I think that because it is part of the series, I thin it makes it a movie worth seeing. But, I do think one thing that is appealing is the storyline. I still think it is a straightforward, entertaining storyline that is part of the reason it made so much money.
4. I think the only real overlap is that both characters grew up with no father. Chiron had Juan as his father figure, but there is no mention of his actual father. Similarly, Adonis' dad, Apollo, died before he was born. Other than that, I think the movies are very different. The main thing that sticks out to me is the pace. Moonlight focuses more on the art and beauty of the film while Creed is mainly an "in your face" type of movie.
1. I like Creed. I like the predictability and straightforwardness. We know Rocky will cave and end up coaching him, that he’ll end up fighting in the championship, that he and Bianca will work things out, that his “mother” will support him, and that by the end, win or lose, he’ll become a man. We know all this from the very beginning, but it’s still rather affirming to see it played out. I definitely take comfort in the familiar, and this plot is so like that of any other sports movie, Karate Kid, for example, that I find it especially manageable.
ReplyDelete2. Yes, I’d recommend Creed, but not, perhaps, for reasons all that impressive. I’d say that this is a movie you can watch, enjoy, and then forget about. It’s like a watermelon, my favorite fruit; it fills you up but only for about an hour tops, then you can pee and eat something else. It’s great for a summer evening, which is its own type of quality movie. It fulfills its purpose, so yes, I’d recommend it.
3. I think it was successful for all the reasons you stated, but also because our main character covers all his bases. He grew up in foster care, appealing to the self-made American; he found a home with a very rich, very loving mother, reflecting the kind of privilege others have; he chooses passion over what’s practical in terms of fighting over financial advising, a fantasy of many working people, and he has something to prove—don’t we all? As far as characters go, this guy is impressively well crafted to ensure the most people find something of themselves in him, and I think that helps to make the movie seem like less of a cheesy, action-packed blockbuster than a story of a boy becoming a man just as most of its audience did—in that, this movie’s a success.
4. I mean, of course there is cross-over because, like most movies, it’s a story of a boy figuring out what it means to be a man. Chiron and Donnie are both boys who find role models in false fathers and base their ideals of masculinity in the only mode of survival they saw when they were children: the drug trade and fighting. What was once the only way they knew to be safe became the basis of their adult, male identity, yet it ultimately (I’d guess, though I don’t know for sure with Creed) proves to be secondary to the bonds they make with people they love and the relationships they have that better them. In that rudimentary and all too common sense, they are similar.
1. I like the movie. I think it fulfills its purpose and I find it entertaining. I think it's a little corny and cliche, but I don't think this necessarily takes away from the quality of the movie. I think those elements just makes it clear what kind of film it is. I liked how fast paced everything was too. I feel like they didn't dwell on any one moment for too long which I think made the story both easier to understand and more entertaining. A moment that stayed with me was when Bianca was performing at her show the first time. I really liked the music in this movie and I thought they did a good job incorporating this aspect of creativity and softness into the tough boxing world.
ReplyDelete2. I would recommend this movie to my friends to see, but probably not buy. I thought it was good but it wasn't anything that I'd need to go out and own. I liked the movie, but it didn't really have an impact on me and didn't leave me feeling differently about anything. It didn't have a lot of substance and I never really felt attached to any of the characters.
3. I think it did what it was supposed to do and got the audience intrigued. It had all the perfect elements for a movie intended to entertain. It had a good balance of action, romance, death, and complexity. Together, these aspects enabled the audience to get just enough of what they were looking for in a movie while not being overwhelmed. I think how Creed was able to combine all these elements provided a range of things to like and for the viewers to grow attached to. The movie was just a good balance and incorporated a variety of details, rather than just focusing on one like a lot of movies do.
4. I think there were a lot of similarities between the movies in terms of their themes. While differing in their intentions, both movies followed a character struggling to find their identity, or to create one for themselves. Both coming from troubling circumstances, this is a challenge they have to overcome and learn from for the future. Had you stripped away both Michael's and Chiron's backgrounds and general descriptions, their missions were ultimately the same, and that was to discover who they were and in a way, prove their worth to themselves.